Chapter 8,10,11,& 12
Using the Writer's Notebook in Grades 3-8: A Teacher's Guide engage in an online discussion group on our class blog.
1)propose “meaty” fat questions to discuss,
2) make connections to your teaching and work with students, and
3)Please respond to two of your classmates’s entries in your study group.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Hi Girls,
ReplyDeleteSo far, I have gotten through the first two chapters and I just had to sit down and write some of my thoughts! Something I read in chapter 10 totally rang true when the text stated that children often think that poems have to rhyme. I am currently finding this to be the case with my own kindergarteners. Although, after reflecting on this a bit, I feel that it is partially my fault...almost all of the poetry books in my classroom library contain rhyming poems! Rhyming is a huge phonemic awareness skill that I need to address as a kindergarten teacher. We even need to assess it on our report card! This may be the reason why I gravitate toward poetry that rhymes for this particlar age group. However, I do feel that is important for studnets to realize early on that poetry doesn't have to rhyme and can take on many forms.
I read an idea in the chapter that I feel can help me teach about a kind of non-rhyming poetry that I could also incorportate into my Seasons Unit...the list poem! Developmentally, I think it would be fairly easy for the kids to do since much of their struggles as writers are putting their ideas into sentence form and not just writing words. The list poem could enable my students to think specifcally about a season and make a list of elements in nature they see, activities to do, etc. I think I may just use this idea! Has anyone else used list poems with their students? If so, how did you use it?
Also, another thought I had was...how do we give our students ample time in their notebooks to write (ideally it would be daily) when as teachers, our time is constrained so much to teaching "CMT like" material? Just a thought...
Hi Everyone-
ReplyDeleteI've read the first two chapters and I really enjoyed how Writing in the notebook was looked at as a genre study. I have realized how many more things I can do with notebooks next year. I really think my students need time to examine many different ideas and be able to respond in different ways. The book selections for added reading were interesting, many i have never seen before, and might be good for helping me become more prepared to teach writing utalizing the writer's notebook next year.
Jess, I agree with you about the poetry, I think that I am not as familiar with poetry, so I tend not to teach it in as much debth as I could. I love her idea of the children identifying a favorite poet and researching that poet to present to the class. I also thought that many of her poetry ideas made so much sense for the beginning of the year. I really liked the % poem, I think my kids would enjoy that. In response to your question, I think the children gravitate toward poetry that rhymes because it is fun to read and fun to listen to. However, it is not the type of poetry that is the best for them to be writing. I know for 2nd grade our standards want the children to write ABA (or something like that) type poetry but there is so much more out there for them. This past valentines day I tried the heart poem activity that was in the back of Reggie Routman's book. The children were supposed to choose something in their hearts to write about. After pushing the students past cupid, hearts, chocolate, and valentines, they actually wrote some great free form meaningful poems about things they found important or memories with their families that they found important.
The CMT, I think that we have a gift working with young children and just a tiny bit more time to let our children try some of these great writing projects. This year I spent more time on non-fiction, did the free verse poetry, and many other projects, my writing scores on the writing prompt were my most solid yet. I am lucky, i don't have anyone checking in with me too often, so I can actually teach, and I find that the kids love these projects and I enjoy teaching them so much aswell.
Is anyone thinking about adding more poetry into reading aswell with the great ideas for writing? Has anyone else noticed children gravitating toward certain types of poetry, or avoiding poetry?
Hi Again-
ReplyDeleteAs I finished the book I felt that it was more of a reminder of good teahing. I think the notebook is going to be a helpful place for students to think and expand on their thinking. When she talks about boys writing, I was thinking about a quote from last semesters reading, It wanted teachers to model books so that students could thinking about what they have read that is like what they wanted to write. If we are going to making writing more engaging, than reading needs to be more engaging aswell and we need to use texts from more boy friendly genres, like sports. I feel like every year I am adding books to my collection that helps engage students, one year there was an obsession for pokemon, so I found appropriate pokemon books, I think I now need to carry that same idea over to writing.
I loved the chapter from Diary of a Wimpy Kid, wouldn't that be a great book to add to a lauching unit on how to use a notebook. I think it would be a great way to show the many types of reading you can do with your writiters notebook.
See you all in the morning g'night
Most of my comments for now are focusing on chapters 8 - 11. In chapter 8 there was a focus on "what is a writer's notebook" I feel like I am getting the idea that the writer's notebook is anything and everything you want to write, it's your outlet for ideas, observations, and emotions. Before reading this chapter I wonder, once students do the writing, then what? The author does address this and says that some students may go back to expand, or turn a piece into a poem or other project, yet others may leave it be for growth. Thinking back to my own childhood, I cannot recall writing in a notebook, but I do know that in recent years I have uncovered my notebooks or journals from elementary school. I had written things that I didn't even remember about so, for me, that notebook was a walk through my youth, to tell me things I did not recall. As I think about incorporating a writer's notebook in my own classroom, I wonder if I push students to write about their feelings, emotions, and lives, an area where many kids are closed off. Chapter 9, which discussed gathering language gave me some good ideas to support my students. As kids who receive speech and language therapy for various reasons, vocabulary knowledge and use is somewhat lacking. I love the idea of using read alouds for vocabulary acquisition since it is embedded with so much rich language. I liked the idea of recording language because it tunes kids in to language and words in their environment. I definitely love words, how they sound, and I have a few favorites I love to say, and I like to make up my own words, which is definitely defined and used amongst friends. I suppose my biggest challenge is getting students to go beyond the basics, beyond the minimum, beyond "it was nice, and fun". Now to the poetry, an area I definitely have less confidence in teaching. In fact, I am making this a goal for myself next school year, USE POETRY MORE OFTEN. Jessica, I agree with you about the rhyming poetry, I use that too and part of it is that the ryhming poems I use also have a nice rhythm and beat to them, which helps kids understand the idea of poetry as partly, a delightful sounding way to say what you mean. I think I also need to spend a lot of time, showing, reading, and discussing good poems and different types of poetry before I expect my students to write their own. I think I will look into the book that is mentioned, All the Small Poems and Fourteen more, because it includes poetry about common things, which I think my students could do. Poems about themselves, and their feelings, and observing more abstract things like nature and the smell of things would be more challenging. I would like to start by getting my students to look at tangible, everyday objects and writing about it so it sounds like a beautiful thing, or so you get a feelings about that thing. From there, I think I could have them venture into deeper poetry, but I need to get them using descriptive language and phrasing with a simple topic. See you in class.
ReplyDeleteGood evening ladies...
ReplyDeletea few thoughts about what i have read so far from the book, and from your thoughts...
First, Jess, I think the list poem is a great idea for not only your unit but for everyday teaching. I found it incredibly friendly, and a poem that could be integrated into just about any content or LA unit. I started using the cinquain poems a few years back and the kids loved it...it was easy, yet thought provoking enough...and once they got the hang of it, we used them for many other units. I also loved the percentage poem...which could be incorporated during a math unit as well as content/LA units. I, just like each of you, often struggles through poetry units, but really need to make it a priority.
In Chapter 9, Elliot states "immerse them so that they have the opportunity to develop an ear for language and to listen like writers". This quote really hit home, because for me, by the time my students get to my classroom, they have years and years of missed opportunity with literature. And sometimes the hill is so steep, that I lose my stride. But Elliot is right when she says "giving them lots of opportunity to read words, write words, talk about words, and most important, enjoy words." Kids are usually more pliable and more willing when they are younger...as sometimes my students are weathered to years of reading difficulty and avoiding classroom responsibilities. But it is really up to me. My goal this coming year, just like Ingrid's, would be to utilize the power and beauty of poetry, not only in units, but in writer's notebooks. But also to immerse my students in literature...everyday...from myself, other adults in the building, and from each other, until they begin to develop that same love for language and literature that we all possess.
I, too, had an "ah-ha" moment when Elliot discussed writer's notebook as a genre study. It all seemed to make sense...When I started the Writer's Notebook two years ago with my class after taking Valerie's writing course, the only examples my students had were my own and each others. It was difficult to find selections online that really gave students examples of what we were working on. I never thought to look past Ralph Fletcher's book...that there would be other books providing examples of writing. One of my questions though...Elliot has discussed the importance of capturing the moment, and sometimes, just jotting down a quick note or sketch and returning to it. But i wonder if that moment is lost when you return to that entry. For me, going back to my own writing is difficult, becuase in that moment, I was feeling something very specific...and later when I return, the setting and emotional connection has changed. So does it then take a life of its own...or does it just get tucked away as a special moment? I think i would have a difficult time modeling that particular skill for students...
In response to the CMT obligations...that is probably one of the pros of working in our particular setting...we dont have those pressures. sure we worry about frameworks, but CMT's are those tests we spend all year teaching strategies so that they remain safe...and the test is returned in one piece. So while sometimes have the ability to teach whatever curriculum I would like can be incredibly overwhelming, it is also incredibly powerful. If my students need immersion in literacy and poetry...then that is what I can provide for them. I look forward to utilizing some of Elliot's strategies for poetry, becuase I have the flexibility with my students.
HI Ladies!
ReplyDeleteYou all had some very insightful and thought provoking comments. I made a connection to the text when it mentioned what students can do with the ideas they write in their notebooks. My students choose one seed for each writing unit I do and turn it into a longer piece. However, I know sometimes my students have more than one idea that they really like but in class we only usually have time to take one seed through the entire writing process. I have been thinking about ways I could enable students to turn more than one seed idea per writing unit into a longer story. If only there were more time in the day....
Ingrid, I think your idea about using concrete objects to help your students write poetry is a fabulous idea! I sometimes you concrete objects as a springboard for seed ideas. Concrete objects can actually spark emotionally charged memories for some kids such as a bike, birthday candle, etc. and make great seed ideas! What I tend to struggle with are the writers who choose seed ideas that don't really lend themselves to be turned into a longer narrative. I do a lot of focus lessesons on "how do we choose seeds to turn into longer stories" but I still have those writers that have a hard time doing this. Any thoughts?
Good morning-
ReplyDeleteYour comments about using concrete objects got me thinking about some of my struggling writers. My focus is the personal narrative, so sometimes I have students bring in photographs of them in a special moment, riding their bike, celebrating a birthday, a special vacation etc. The pictures help them remember where they were or what they were doing. This was a very big piece of my family literacy project, a scrapbooking project where all my students used photographs.
Jenna - I like the idea of using pictures. I guess my aversion to poetry is how to get students to be insightful and evaluate everything around them about a single moment. I don't think I would have a great turn out if I asked kids to bring in a picture, but I could take a picture of them having fun at recess or during various activities at school. I think this would be their chance to evaluate that moment in time and be poetic about it, but the visual would support them a lot. I think a picture of the students in a moment would help me bridge from writing about tangible objects, to writing about a moment, feeling, or event.
ReplyDeleteI love the idea of using photographs and other momentos...and had been pondering how to incorporate such an idea within our program when asking for things from home can be so inconsistent. Ingrid, I like your idea to take photographs during the school day...and even more so, for my older bunch of kids, photographs on field trips could work as well. That way, when students are asked to write about the trip, they have something tangible in front of them. I also like your idea, Jessica, to use tangible objects to which kids can connect...that is something i could see my students responding to with proper modeling...
ReplyDeleteI have been rolling around chapter 11 for the past day, and have some mixed feelings about it. not sure if this chapter happened to hit for anyone else. in my eight years, i have only taught 1 girl, so finding writing and subject matter that appeals to boys is right up my alley. I really like how Elliot discusses giving boys the opportunity to write about subjects of interest to them...but with parameters. I absolutely agree that we have to make a writer's notebook appealing. But i guess i wonder how this particular freedom would work in a setting such as ours where kids are surrounded by violence and crude behavior. I love the fact that kids are reading Diary of a Wimpy Kid...because kids are reading. and that is the final goal. but i have struggled with this book this year b/c this subject matter has overflowed into their social skills and classroom behavior. conversations at lunch perseverate on some of the more inappropriate language in the book. I think that this book can only be one example of style in an entire genre study...we want kids to be well-rounded, yet they are immersed in rated R movies and rated M video games. While i think this particular author provides an example of a writer's notebook, kids need to be exposed to so many other genres and styles of writing.
I like how you pick up on each others ideas and connect to your own classrooms and ask questions that are relevant to your work.
ReplyDeleteHahaha Stacey, I defintely thought of your red-headed boy when I read the part about diary of a wimpy kid. On a note about my unit, as I was looking for poems about my unit topic, I uncovered a book of poems written by Valerie Worth with illustrations by Steve Jenkins, the illustrator of most of the books I will be using for my unit. Valerie Worth is the author who was mentioned in the chapter on poetry, and who I wanted to look into using in my classroom because she writes about so many everyday things. I have the poems in front of me, although I struggle to find a way to incorporate them because of the advanced language and vocabulary. She definitely doesn't dumb down the language for kids. One of my goals for this unit is to get kids to share their writing, and chapter 12 outlines 5 ways that sharing writing is beneficical to students and educators. This is definitely something I will keep in mind and share with my students.
ReplyDeleteMy question that I wanted to pose was, how do you deal with the advanced vocabulary and language that may be beyond students comprehension or understanding? Are there any particular poets that you use often, or that you find students understand? My concern with poetry in the classroom, for my students is that there is so much that needs to be taught or explained before they can understand the poem, and I think it detracts from the beauty of the verse.
ReplyDelete